He was told to shoot two rounds. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. . You have entered an incorrect email address! Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. 2. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! Canadian soldier. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. Whether or not the suits have merit. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. Were not the only ones who have noticed the lawsuits. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. The weapons are currently on the shelf and the soldiers have returned to using their older model SIG P226s. So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. Search Texas Statutes. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. Clients such as law enforcement officers whose negligent discharges could result in their being disciplined or fired unless it can be proven that the gun was at fault. Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. Ron, Fair enough. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. Sig P320 discharge while holstered. But SIG Sauer said it has rectified the issue with upgrades, including one made for the U.S. military which court documents, filed as part of one of the lawsuits, show resulted in substantial changes to the weapons internal design. Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. Dont care for them, not my jam. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. Circumstances that explained those un-commanded discharges.. They habitually use their customers as the product testers by selling what are essentially prototypes while quietly implementing rolling revisions. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. As for Seals they have their own contract with Glock but can carry anything they want. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. . A shame but then no one was hurt. Sig can burn for all I care. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. The Glock fails on both counts. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. My gun just went off! Before the madness SIGS were expensive. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. No picture for me. how do I get one for my P320? After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. It has nothing to do with Glock. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. Not much detail is provided in any of those other claimed incidents, but a few stand out. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. D. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. Where is this lightning striking twice? Period. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. Legal Penalties. Thats fine. Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. That took a lot. Really? They didnt have to, but did. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . BAM. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. The problem is non-existent. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. . If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. Too Many Accidents If you can make the trigger move backwards, all bets are off. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. three changes to the original design. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. congrats. is the manual safety a kit you add? Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. Sound familiar? Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? The Hide Armory. They suck and Im awesome!, 2. They are being replaced with Glocks. Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. This website has been messed up all week so that might be the problem in replying. I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. The company didnt want to comment on any specific pending litigation for obvious reasons. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. I agree. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. in Capitalvania. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. Bineau added the review is looking at so-called ancillary equipment (meaning the holster and other items) as one element of that broader investigation. 3) If the sear fails, there is the drop safety in the way of the striker. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. Both companies, instead, took to pro-gun industry forums to offer a rebuttal, giving no opportunity to answer questions. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. L. LRRifleman . If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. The cost of settlements will be passed on to us. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. Great job, this threat needed some levity! Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. These officers are not gunfighters. They function as commanded every time. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. It nicely describes what has to happen in a striker-fired P320 for an un-commanded discharge to happen as the plaintiffs have claimed. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. A lot like carrying a cocked and locked 1911 but with the safety off. Many gun makers have had issues with drop firing, unintended discharge, bad safeties This is a resource I compiled of semi-auto pistols that have been recalled or Upgraded for Safety related problems like Drop Firing, Safeties that Malfunction, Risk of Accidental Discharge, etc. Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. Its a novelty, its got issues! abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. According to Section 22.05 of the Texas Penal Code, engaging in deadly conduct with a firearm is considered a felony of the third degree. He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. Funny how that works. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. . 3. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. He probably had a double until it was over. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. Who knows. While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. Plastic crap! First off, no joke on me. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. There was no holster involved. But that's not working in the P320, he said. I dont care about the upgrade that should never happen. So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. Bravo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, Simply put, the P320 is not safe and the lawsuits arent frivolous. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. But it also has much worse quality control on the parts in my experience owning and working on both. Time will tell if no. Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. If the latter were to occur, the drop safety would prevent discharge because it would not be pushed up by anything. Was it his fault? Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. Mine is very accurate. Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. He points to it in the video. Asking for a friend. Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. I sold that pistol when I got it back. This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. It was one of the first ones and was sent back as a voluntary upgrade. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! I didnt even touch it! I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. That focus drifts. Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. But Shatner? I am still waiting for the UPS man (not from the devil but from Sig) I will not hold my breath. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! Because its flat out bull**it. In my opinion, the only reason SIG would have done that is if they knew there was a safety problem with the original gun, otherwise they would not have done it., Scott says Harrison reviewed the claims in Officer Hiltons lawsuit and said, its unclear to (Harrison) what could now be causing misfires in the upgraded guns., Scott then asked Harrison if he believes the P320 should be removed from the marketplace. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun?
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